the granter of sina

MS knows Vista is crap lol

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1619

Microsoft is sending some very confusing signals about Windows Vista - the
latest of which it issued via a statement on October 3.

The Register reported on October 2 that Microsoft was going to extend again
the date until which PC makers would be allowed to continue to offer Windows
users "downgrade rights," enabling them to switch from Vista to XP on new
machines. The Reg said Microsoft had moved the downgrade cut-off date from
January 31, 2009 to July 31, 2009.

I asked Microsoft about the Reg's report and got this statement, via a
company spokesperson:

"As more customers make the move to Windows Vista, we want to make sure
that they are making that transition with confidence and that it is as
smooth as possible. Providing downgrade media for a few more months is part
of that commitment, as is the Windows Vista Small Business Assurance program
(available in the U.S. only), which provides 1-on-1, customized support for
our small business customers."

In other words, the Reg's story was correct.

The spokesperson sent further clarification:

"What's changing is Microsoft is giving six more months where it will
provide downgrade media for XP Professional for OEMs and system builders to
provide to their customers who purchase Windows Vista Ultimate and Business
editions - (which the company figures will be) largely going to be small
businesses since that's the audience that would want/use XP Pro. So it's the
same old downgrade right thing that was in the EULA (End User License
Agreement) before; it's just Microsoft is providing the media to partners a
few months more."

"The same caveat with providing the downgrade media as before applies,
which is OEMs and system builders don't have to do so if they don't want -
it's their business decision to make."

Microsoft has extended XP's end-of-life date before. In Apri 2008 l,
Microsoft officials said the company was not going to extend again the date
on which it required OEMs to stop preloading XP on new machines. That date
was June 30, 2008. Microsoft did say that system builders, a k a white box
vendors, would be allowed to continue to preload XP on new systems until
January 31, 2009. OEMs and system builders both were OK'd to continue
preloading XP on new ultra-low-cost systems through 2010, as many of those
systems were and are incapable of running Vista.

Bottom line: Even though Microsoft is maintaining publicly that Vista is
finally ready for prime time, it is allowing PC makers to continue to offer
customers XP. So what's a user to believe? Is Microsoft really standing
behind Vista? And if it's not - but instead is doing what customers really
want (while simply giving lip-service to Vista's readiness - is that still a
positive?

Chuck

All I can say to this is that MANY of the "leading" OEM laptops sold in the
fall/winter of 2007 do not run Vista well.
1. First problem -- Processor and memory speeds & amount of memory. (Most
laptops use part of System RAM for Video RAM, and it may be a significant
amount.)

2. Video and sound drivers (combined with "dual core" processors ) Quite a
few of the laptops develop "stuttering" that is usually sound, although some
also have the same problem with video. Seems that the affected laptops were
released with 32bit Vista versions, and there was no upgrade path to 64bit,
due to lack of drivers. The Video drivers are just now being updated enough
to permit fair (low option) game play of the newer graphics intensive games.
DX10 is another issue in the same general area. The "Classic" mode seems to
be almost mandatory if reasonable speed is to be maintained.

3. An additional problem is that win XP drivers may not be available for
these laptops.

I believe that XP should have one more "final" release, fully patched &
SP'd, and be available to the public as either a "downgrade", or an
upgrade/refresh for existing systems.


"the granter of sina" <granter@yan.sina> wrote in message
news:48e6d370@newsgate.x-privat.org...
> MS knows Vista is crap lol
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1619
>
> Microsoft is sending some very confusing signals about Windows Vista - the
> latest of which it issued via a statement on October 3.
>
> The Register reported on October 2 that Microsoft was going to extend
> again the date until which PC makers would be allowed to continue to offer
> Windows users "downgrade rights," enabling them to switch from Vista to XP
> on new machines. The Reg said Microsoft had moved the downgrade cut-off
> date from January 31, 2009 to July 31, 2009.
>
> I asked Microsoft about the Reg's report and got this statement, via a
> company spokesperson:
>
> "As more customers make the move to Windows Vista, we want to make
> sure that they are making that transition with confidence and that it is
> as smooth as possible. Providing downgrade media for a few more months is
> part of that commitment, as is the Windows Vista Small Business Assurance
> program (available in the U.S. only), which provides 1-on-1, customized
> support for our small business customers."
>
> In other words, the Reg's story was correct.
>
> The spokesperson sent further clarification:
>
> "What's changing is Microsoft is giving six more months where it will
> provide downgrade media for XP Professional for OEMs and system builders
> to provide to their customers who purchase Windows Vista Ultimate and
> Business editions - (which the company figures will be) largely going to
> be small businesses since that's the audience that would want/use XP Pro.
> So it's the same old downgrade right thing that was in the EULA (End User
> License Agreement) before; it's just Microsoft is providing the media to
> partners a few months more."
>
> "The same caveat with providing the downgrade media as before applies,
> which is OEMs and system builders don't have to do so if they don't want -
> it's their business decision to make."
>
> Microsoft has extended XP's end-of-life date before. In Apri 2008 l,
> Microsoft officials said the company was not going to extend again the
> date on which it required OEMs to stop preloading XP on new machines. That
> date was June 30, 2008. Microsoft did say that system builders, a k a
> white box vendors, would be allowed to continue to preload XP on new
> systems until January 31, 2009. OEMs and system builders both were OK'd to
> continue preloading XP on new ultra-low-cost systems through 2010, as many
> of those systems were and are incapable of running Vista.
>
> Bottom line: Even though Microsoft is maintaining publicly that Vista is
> finally ready for prime time, it is allowing PC makers to continue to
> offer customers XP. So what's a user to believe? Is Microsoft really
> standing behind Vista? And if it's not - but instead is doing what
> customers really want (while simply giving lip-service to Vista's
> readiness - is that still a positive?

Vista Cabal

"the granter of sina" <granter@yan.sina> wrote in message
news:48e6d370@newsgate.x-privat.org...
> MS knows Vista is crap lol
>
>
> Bottom line:

That's precisely it, it's a business descision, not a crap one.

- Vista Cabal

Alias

Vista Cabal wrote:
> "the granter of sina" <granter@yan.sina> wrote in message
> news:48e6d370@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>> MS knows Vista is crap lol
>>
>>
>> Bottom line:
>
> That's precisely it, it's a business descision, not a crap one.
>
> - Vista Cabal

And, next to Windows Me and Microsoft Bob, one of the worst decisions
Microsoft has ever made.

Alias

Canuck57

"Chuck" <cdkuder@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ec9Su1cJJHA.1308@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> All I can say to this is that MANY of the "leading" OEM laptops sold in
> the fall/winter of 2007 do not run Vista well.
> 1. First problem -- Processor and memory speeds & amount of memory. (Most
> laptops use part of System RAM for Video RAM, and it may be a significant
> amount.)

While my system isn't a laptop, it is a Q6600 quad processor and 8GB of RAM
with 2 500GB SATA drives. And it is pig slow at network and disk to disk
copy.

> 2. Video and sound drivers (combined with "dual core" processors ) Quite
> a few of the laptops develop "stuttering" that is usually sound, although
> some also have the same problem with video. Seems that the affected
> laptops were released with 32bit Vista versions, and there was no upgrade
> path to 64bit, due to lack of drivers. The Video drivers are just now
> being updated enough to permit fair (low option) game play of the newer
> graphics intensive games. DX10 is another issue in the same general area.
> The "Classic" mode seems to be almost mandatory if reasonable speed is to
> be maintained.

A flaw in Vista's design. You shouldn't need a super computer to run the
graphics. And they are not without issues either, noisy fans, heat, power,
drivers...

> 3. An additional problem is that win XP drivers may not be available for
> these laptops.

Actually, they usually are. It would be more accurate to state your vendor
does not want to support their use and isn't telling you where to get them.

For example, I go to Intel and slip stream in the XP drivers and back to
much faster XP. But the vendor will not tell you that as a rule. Probably
because of their M$ agreements and predatory pricing.

> I believe that XP should have one more "final" release, fully patched &
> SP'd, and be available to the public as either a "downgrade", or an
> upgrade/refresh for existing systems.

Agreed. But for customers to get what they want a few ego's at M$ need to
be fixed.


> "the granter of sina" <granter@yan.sina> wrote in message
> news:48e6d370@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>> MS knows Vista is crap lol
>>
>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1619
>>
>> Microsoft is sending some very confusing signals about Windows Vista -
>> the latest of which it issued via a statement on October 3.
>>
>> The Register reported on October 2 that Microsoft was going to extend
>> again the date until which PC makers would be allowed to continue to
>> offer Windows users "downgrade rights," enabling them to switch from
>> Vista to XP on new machines. The Reg said Microsoft had moved the
>> downgrade cut-off date from January 31, 2009 to July 31, 2009.
>>
>> I asked Microsoft about the Reg's report and got this statement, via a
>> company spokesperson:
>>
>> "As more customers make the move to Windows Vista, we want to make
>> sure that they are making that transition with confidence and that it is
>> as smooth as possible. Providing downgrade media for a few more months is
>> part of that commitment, as is the Windows Vista Small Business Assurance
>> program (available in the U.S. only), which provides 1-on-1, customized
>> support for our small business customers."
>>
>> In other words, the Reg's story was correct.
>>
>> The spokesperson sent further clarification:
>>
>> "What's changing is Microsoft is giving six more months where it will
>> provide downgrade media for XP Professional for OEMs and system builders
>> to provide to their customers who purchase Windows Vista Ultimate and
>> Business editions - (which the company figures will be) largely going to
>> be small businesses since that's the audience that would want/use XP Pro.
>> So it's the same old downgrade right thing that was in the EULA (End User
>> License Agreement) before; it's just Microsoft is providing the media to
>> partners a few months more."
>>
>> "The same caveat with providing the downgrade media as before
>> applies, which is OEMs and system builders don't have to do so if they
>> don't want - it's their business decision to make."
>>
>> Microsoft has extended XP's end-of-life date before. In Apri 2008 l,
>> Microsoft officials said the company was not going to extend again the
>> date on which it required OEMs to stop preloading XP on new machines.
>> That date was June 30, 2008. Microsoft did say that system builders, a k
>> a white box vendors, would be allowed to continue to preload XP on new
>> systems until January 31, 2009. OEMs and system builders both were OK'd
>> to continue preloading XP on new ultra-low-cost systems through 2010, as
>> many of those systems were and are incapable of running Vista.
>>
>> Bottom line: Even though Microsoft is maintaining publicly that Vista is
>> finally ready for prime time, it is allowing PC makers to continue to
>> offer customers XP. So what's a user to believe? Is Microsoft really
>> standing behind Vista? And if it's not - but instead is doing what
>> customers really want (while simply giving lip-service to Vista's
>> readiness - is that still a positive?
>
>

+Bob+

On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 10:29:01 -0600, "Canuck57"
<dave-no_spam@nospam.net> wrote:

>While my system isn't a laptop, it is a Q6600 quad processor and 8GB of RAM
>with 2 500GB SATA drives. And it is pig slow at network and disk to disk
>copy.

I don't do a lot of disk to disk, but Vista _is_ a pig on network
access. Getting to/from shares is pitiful compared to XP. A peek
around the newsgroups or the 'net will demonstrate that Vista's
networking just plain sucks all around, from the time you try to hook
up to the time you disconnect.

Plato

the granter of sina wrote:
>
> Microsoft is sending some very confusing signals about Windows Vista - the
> latest of which it issued via a statement on October 3.
>
> The Register reported on October 2 that Microsoft was going to extend again
> the date until which PC makers would be allowed to continue to offer Windows
> users "downgrade rights," enabling them to switch from Vista to XP on new

I'm also a bit confused. The other Sunday I was watching NASCAR with a
neighbor and was considering bringing my laptop over after signing up
with their special service, which required a high end pc/laptop, so I
went to Dell and looked for laptops as it was about time for me to get
in shape, and they all seemed to come with Vista, but for $100 _more_
you could get a _downgrade_ to XP.

Too weird for me. I closed the page.

--
http://www.bootdisk.com/

Plato

Chuck wrote:
>
> 1. First problem -- Processor and memory speeds & amount of memory. (Most
> laptops use part of System RAM for Video RAM, and it may be a significant
> amount.)

I believe all, most all, laptops use system ram for video ram, as do
most new desktops.

--
http://www.bootdisk.com/

Sunny

"Plato" <|@|.|> wrote in message
news:48ec55a2$0$272$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> the granter of sina wrote:
>>
>> Microsoft is sending some very confusing signals about Windows Vista -
>> the
>> latest of which it issued via a statement on October 3.
>>
>> The Register reported on October 2 that Microsoft was going to extend
>> again
>> the date until which PC makers would be allowed to continue to offer
>> Windows
>> users "downgrade rights," enabling them to switch from Vista to XP on
>> new
>
> I'm also a bit confused. The other Sunday I was watching NASCAR with a
> neighbor and was considering bringing my laptop over after signing up
> with their special service, which required a high end pc/laptop, so I
> went to Dell and looked for laptops as it was about time for me to get
> in shape, and they all seemed to come with Vista, but for $100 _more_
> you could get a _downgrade_ to XP.
>
> Too weird for me. I closed the page.

If you had read and understood the offer i.e.
You get two OS - Vista and WinXP CDs.

+Bob+

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 17:19:35 +1000, "Sunny" <wombathouse@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

>
>If you had read and understood the offer i.e.
>You get two OS - Vista and WinXP CDs.

The point is that most of us don't want Vista, so we're effectively
paying an extra $100 to get XP. Dell knows that, and is gouging out
$100 if you want XP.