3c273

Reference please.
Louis

"jtankers" <jtankers.38qksa@news.home.local> wrote in message
news:jtankers.38qksa@news.home.local...
>
> Yes, people make simple math errors. Did you know that CERN made a
> simple math error that passed 4 reviews and that math error resulted in
> an explosion that delayed the project for about a year?
>
>
> --
> jtankers
> Posted via http://ms-os.com Forum to Usenet gateway
>

jtankers

Big Bang at the atomic lab after scientists get their maths wrong - Times Online

A £2 billion project to answer some of the biggest mysteries of the universe has been delayed by months after scientists building it made basic errors in their mathematical calculations.

The mistakes led to an explosion deep in the tunnel at the Cern particle accelerator complex near Geneva in Switzerland. It lifted a 20-ton magnet off its mountings, filling a tunnel with helium gas and forcing an evacuation.

Related blogs at: Slashdot | Bad Math Causes Explosion at CERN Collider

"The Large Hadron Collider at the CERN has suffered a big explosion deep inside that has caused a leak of hellium gas and the quick evacuation of everyone working there. The reason: a mathematical mistake that affected the design of the giant superconductive magnets made by Fermilab. Now the company will have to repair and upgrade the 24 magnets that are installed on the 27 km. circunference of one of the most important research centers on Earth."

apistomaster

So, the whole planet might be on the edge of circling down the drain.
Had to happen sometime.

3c273

Thanks!
"jtankers" <jtankers.38qoya@news.home.local> wrote in message
news:jtankers.38qoya@news.home.local...
>
> 'Big Bang at the atomic lab after scientists get their maths wrong -
> Times Online'
> (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1626728.ece)
>
> A £2 billion project to answer some of the biggest mysteries of the
> universe has been delayed by months after scientists building it made
> basic errors in their mathematical calculations.
>
> The mistakes led to an explosion deep in the tunnel at the Cern
> particle accelerator complex near Geneva in Switzerland. It lifted a
> 20-ton magnet off its mountings, filling a tunnel with helium gas and
> forcing an evacuation.
>
> Related blogs at: 'Slashdot | Bad Math Causes Explosion at CERN
> Collider' (http://science.slashdot.org/article..../04/09/1240249)
>
> "The Large Hadron Collider at the CERN has suffered a big explosion
> deep inside that has caused a leak of hellium gas and the quick
> evacuation of everyone working there. The reason: a mathematical mistake
> that affected the design of the giant superconductive magnets made by
> Fermilab. Now the company will have to repair and upgrade the 24 magnets
> that are installed on the 27 km. circunference of one of the most
> important research centers on Earth."
>
>
> --
> jtankers
> Posted via http://ms-os.com Forum to Usenet gateway
>

Pegasus \(MVP\)

"jtankers" <jtankers.38qoya@news.home.local> wrote in message
news:jtankers.38qoya@news.home.local...
>
> 'Big Bang at the atomic lab after scientists get their maths wrong -
> Times Online'
> (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1626728.ece)
>
> A £2 billion project to answer some of the biggest mysteries of the
> universe has been delayed by months after scientists building it made
> basic errors in their mathematical calculations.
>
> The mistakes led to an explosion deep in the tunnel at the Cern
> particle accelerator complex near Geneva in Switzerland. It lifted a
> 20-ton magnet off its mountings, filling a tunnel with helium gas and
> forcing an evacuation.
>
> Related blogs at: 'Slashdot | Bad Math Causes Explosion at CERN
> Collider' (http://science.slashdot.org/article..../04/09/1240249)
>
> "The Large Hadron Collider at the CERN has suffered a big explosion
> deep inside that has caused a leak of hellium gas and the quick
> evacuation of everyone working there. The reason: a mathematical mistake
> that affected the design of the giant superconductive magnets made by
> Fermilab. Now the company will have to repair and upgrade the 24 magnets
> that are installed on the 27 km. circunference of one of the most
> important research centers on Earth."
>
>
> --
> jtankers
> Posted via http://ms-os.com Forum to Usenet gateway

It appears that the journalist who wrote this item failed to appreciate
the difference between an explosion and an implosion. As we all
know, Helium gas cannot explode - it is an inert gas, so what exactly
exploded. Nothing! Staff were evacuated because they were at risk
of suffocating due to the release of helium gas. Here is what really
happened:

"Part of the supports of the magnet had collapsed under the pressure
of the test, producing a loud bang like an explosion and releasing
helium gas."
and
"The problem was a design flaw: the magnet designers (researchers
at Fermilab) had failed to take account of all the kinds of forces
the magnets had to withstand."

The Times article may make great reading for doomsday sayers
but it misses its target by a long shot: No explosion and not a
"simple maths error" either.

Quotes from: Scientific American, February 2008, pg. 45

Pegasus \(MVP\)

"jtankers" <jtankers.38qoya@news.home.local> wrote in message
news:jtankers.38qoya@news.home.local...

After reading some of the background information I realise
that you're a man on a mission and that the subject has
been argued extensively in other media, e.g. here:
http://www.lhcconcerns.com/LHCConcer...t&sd=a&start=0
This newsgroup deals with Windows XP and is therefore
an inappropriate forum for this subject. Had I know this
before then I would not have responded at all.

HeyBub

Doomsday Machine wrote:
> French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole
> Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG
>
> French Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
> Old Dying Physicists want to go out with a BIG BANG
>
[...]

If the Democrats in Congress hadn't canceled the Superconducting
Supercollider in Texas, WE could have been the one's to go out with a bang!

liquid

What's with the random capital letters? BTW this is an Xbox group

"Doomsday Machine" <seelinks@article.com> wrote in message
news:SLaSj.104522$rd2.43056@pd7urf3no...
> French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
> Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG
>
> French Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
> Old Dying Physicists want to go out with a BIG BANG
>
> What are we talking about?
>
> Many helpful Links and Video links at end of post.
>
> http://lhcconcerns.com/
>
> In May of 2008 the largest, most expensive scientific experiment, The
> Large
> Hadron Collider will be completed. This mechanical behemoth located along
> the French and Swiss border with a total estimated circumference of 17
> miles
> will be the most powerful particle accelerator in existence. The principal
> behind a particle accelerator is that by speeding up the smallest elements
> of matter and then colliding them together that they can be broken down
> further into even smaller fundamental particles, just as Atoms were once
> thought to be the smallest units, so then were Quarks(Up and Down),
> Electrons, and Protons discovered.
>
> The Large Hadron Collide is hoped to discover what is referred to as the
> "Higgs Boson". Although a theoretical scalar particle theorized by Peter
> Higgs in 1974, it is actually a member of the standard model, and it is
> believed that the Higgs Boson is what gives matter "mass". To achieve the
> observation of the Higgs Boson, the LHC will be smashing these Hadrons
> (specifically Protons) together at speeds almost unimaginable to the
> average
> person, at near c( .99999999 % the speed of light).
>
> To quantify the types of collisions, it must be pointed out that two beams
> will be set to collide with each other, each beam of protons contains
> roughly 2,800 Protons with an energy of 7 TeV (1 Teraelectron Volt =
> 1.60217646 x 10-7 joules) so the combined energies will be 14 TeV.
> Although
> such energies in collisions are certainly occurring every day in space,
> this
> will be the first time that energies such as these will be observed on
> Earth, however what is alarming to us are the myriad of other
> possibilities
> that could arise.
>
> Why haven't I heard about this before?
>
> Honestly, this is a good question, I seem to come accross this response a
> lot, it seems that in general most people have never heard of the LHC, or
> even particle acclerators in general, I am aware that there has been a lot
> more coverage of this in the UK then the America's (probably due to it's
> geographical location), but also I suppose the main reason why it is not
> covered that often in the states is because of a general lack of interest,
> or the belief that the general public is probably incapable of
> understanding
> something so complex. Still however there are several Documentaries and
> other programs/magazines that have covered the LHC, so I'm not fully sure
> why some people have not heard about this as from a financial perspective
> it's the most expsenive (8.2 Billion Dollars) and most powerful scientific
> Expirement of al time.
>
> Why We're Concerned
>
> To explain the concern thoroughly and accurately it has to be stated that
> the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva is not the first particle accelerator
> in
> history. In 1929 the Cyclotron, invented and developed by Ernest O.
> Lawrence, was the first particle accelerator, and from that initial
> invention over several decades we have come into a new breed of Larger and
> More Powerful Particle Accelerators. Although we have had particle
> accelerators in the past, The luminosity at which these operate has
> increased dramatically, in fact it is true that prior to the construction
> of
> the RHIC (Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider) such theories as MBH
> Production,
> Strangelets, and several other theories were placed on the table as
> relevant
> possibilities.
>
> So, what's different this time?
>
> This is the point that has to be emphasized, this time things are quite
> different, a study was conducted after initial concerns for the RHIC were
> explored, and to their conclusion the amount of energy necessary for these
> scenarios was not sufficient. The Large Hadron Collider operates at a
> total
> combined energy of 14TeV, which is a lot higher than the energies
> generated
> by the RHIC, as such the possibility of Black Hole creation is a reality,
> in
> fact on CERN's own web site they admit it could create Black Holes, here
> is
> an excerpt from Safety at the LHC
>
> "If the LHC can produce microscopic black holes, cosmic rays of much
> higher energies would already have produced many more. Since the Earth is
> still here, there is no reason to believe that collisions inside the LHC
> are
> harmful. Black holes lose matter through the emission of energy via a
> process discovered by Stephen Hawking. Any black hole that cannot attract
> matter, such as those that might be produced at the LHC, will shrink,
> evaporate and disappear. The smaller the black hole, the faster it
> vanishes.
> If microscopic black holes were to be found at the LHC, they would exist
> only for a fleeting moment. They would be so short-lived that the only way
> they could be detected would be by detecting the products of their decay."
> We'll cover the theoretical problem of this statement in the next section.
>
> So, what's the problem?
>
> In theory (according to Hawking Radiation) any Black Hole created would
> evaporate in Femtoseconds, not having the chance to accrete any mass, and
> being essentially harmless, although this is comforting in theory, It has
> never been proven, and in fact has been questioned before. The problem is
> that although most people in the physics community believe in Hawkings
> Radiation, it has no basis in observation. In 2003 Adam D. Helfer
> Published
> a paper concerning Hawking's Radiation coming to the conclusion that
> Hawking's Radiation may in fact be incorrect, and that a Black Hole would
> not lose mass in such a way. (For the full text of this document go here
> Paper By Adam D. Helfer on Hawking Radiation.)
>
> In fact since the LHC has been on the drawing board several studies and
> theories which have gained a lot of support in the scientific community
> such
> as "String Theory" and "Extra-Large Hidden Dimensions" have surfaced,
> which
> do indeed place the threshold for Black Hole Creation much lower than
> previously thought.
>
> The main problem lies in believing in theory as fact, every argument for
> safety made concerning Black Holes and thier creation immediately
> references
> Hawking Radiation, however, if Hawking Radiation turns out to be incorrect
> then the Black Hole would continue to accrete mass at an exponential rate.
>
> Now Hold on, No one would willingly create a machine that would create
> Black
> Holes on Purpose?
>
> Of course not, I highly doubt the thousands of scientists involved wish to
> usher in Oblivion any quicker than politicians, however the danger lies in
> Theory being accepted as Fact, Adam D. Helfer Published a paper recently
> which outlines a very strong possibility that Hawkings Radiation may in
> fact
> not exist, which would actually fit in better with the Laws of
> Thermodynamics, at which Our current explanation and understanding of the
> nature of Black Holes has always been somewhat at Odds.
>
> Alright, so if a Black Hole created doesn't evaporate, what next?
>
> Here is another place that CERN's safety assessment is incapable of
> addressing, although these extremely high energy collisions each Proton
> beam
> is in fact coming from opposite directions, Over 2 thousand Protons in
> each
> beam will pretty much collide roughly in the middle, although no collision
> would create a particle exactly dead center, or "still", in a relative
> sense
> any MBH or fundamental particle created in such a manner (even with both
> beams at a speed of .99999999 c) would be in a relative sense, at Rest, or
> to elaborate the term at rest we mean lower than the necessary escape
> velocity to escape the Earth's own gravitational pull.
>
> At that point two hypothetical scenarios exist. It would either maintain a
> rather low orbit within our planet itself, slowly accreting mass at an
> exponential rate, or it's possible it may "gravitate" to the direct center
> of the planet in which case would accrete mass very quickly
>
> Wait a second, I've also heard of other dangers like "Strange Matter",
> "Bubble Nucleation", and "Magnetic Monopoles", why the focus on Black
> Holes?
>
> It is true that these scenarios are also possible, however the problem
> with
> representing them accurately is the true danger can never be quantified as
> None of these have been observed, however that does not mean the risk is
> zero. The very fact that this experiment is called an experiment is the
> prove a hypothesis, if the results were truly known then this would not be
> occurring in the first place.
>
> The Large Hadron Collider is going to be forcing Protons together in a
> very
> unnatural way, not only forcing them into groups of roughly 3,000 protons
> for the collisions, but exposing them to temperatures colder than space as
> well (1.9 K or -271 C). These types of collisions in a sense are unnatural
> because collisions at those speeds and temperature would never happen,
> meaning at the point of activation, no one will truly know these results
> until they occur, in a matter of Femtoseconds we would be placing the
> entire
> world in potential Danger. I've seen many websites calculate
> possiblity/problem or a percentage of risk, however without many of these
> theories as proof, there is no accurate way to calcuate them, So although
> the risk potential is unknown, the risk can never be calculated at zero.
>
> Although the credence given Strange Matter production, and it's subsequent
> catalytic behavior by the scientific community is not always mutual.
> Certain
> types of Strange Matter could be formed that would catalytically convert
> all
> matter that it touches into strange matter as well, although this is not
> as
> likely as creating a Black Hole, it's worth mentioning because it is a
> possibility.
>
> I want to learn more, where can I go?
>
> The internet is a good place, it brought you here, didn't it? Of course
> you
> could always visit the links on the site, and take part in our discussion
> on
> the forum, I would recommend familiarizing yourself with all the issues,
> and
> a basic understanding of Black Holes won't hurt either, of course I can
> always recommend reading A Brief History of Time or the Universe in a
> Nutshell there is always Google, for as many people as there are
> concerned,
> there are people who believe the danger is zero, it's important for you,
> to
> properly evaluate the facts and come to your own conclusion, of course we
> would like your support, however, the goal of this web site is
> information,
> discussion, action, and rationale, we are real people after all, and so
> are
> you.
>
> Thinking outside the box can't hurt either, I encourage you to Talk to a
> Professor at a local college, write a Letter to CERN, do whatever you need
> to do to inform yourself and make an informed decision, any contribution
> you
> make, even discussing with one other single person in the world, has the
> possibility to make all the difference.
>
> Links..
>
> Large Hadron Collider
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider
>
> CERN
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN
>
> LHC Concerns
>
> http://lhcconcerns.com/
>
> National Geograhic - The God Particle
>
> http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...achenbach-text
>
> BBC News - Lab Fireball May Have Been Black Hole
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4357613.stm
>
> An Open Letter To Stephen Hawking
>
> http://lhcconcerns.com/LHCConcerns/F...c.php?f=2&t=72
>
> Black Holes On Demand (George Street Journal)
>
> http://www.brown.edu/Administration/.../26GSJ10a.html
>
> CBC News - LHC
>
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/science/lhc.html
>
> New York Times - LHC Dangerous?
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/15/sc...rssnyt&emc=rss
>
> LHC 17 Miles Around Photos - New Tork Times
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/ref/science/2...N_GRAPHIC.html
>
> LHC Legal Defense Fund
>
> http://www.lhcdefense.org/
>
> MySpace STOP CERN Website
>
> http://www.myspace.com/stopcern
>
> LHC Risk Evaluation Forum
>
> http://www.risk-evaluation-forum.org/
>
> YouTube music Video Of The Atom Smasher (LHC) Black Hole Generator
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOFSrS03wjE#GU5U2spHI_4
>
> French Build Doomsday Machine
>
> http://www.misunderstooduniverse.com...ay_Machine.htm
>
> U-Tube Videos
>
> Documentery
>
> Large Hadron Collider - The Search For The Higgs [1 of 3]
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fJ6P...eature=related
>
> Large Hadron Collider - The Search For The Higgs [2 of 3]
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQNPp...eature=related
>
> Large Hadron Collider - The Search For The Higgs [3 of 3]
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XbKZ...eature=related
>
> The Large Hadron Collider: The End Of The Universe?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPxYd...eature=related
>
>

mholt@ohiohills.com

On Apr 30, 11:26 pm, "Doomsday Machine" <seeli...@article.com> wrote:
> French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
> Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

What does this have to do with XP?

Get a life. Start a dedicated newsgroup and leave us to our business.